Thursday, 17 July 2014

What would happen to EU nationals living or planning to visit or live in the UK after a UK exit from the EU?




Helena Wray, Reader in Law at Middlesex University and editor of Journal of Immigration Asylum and Nationality Law

As the election approaches and the Conservative Party flirts ever more extravagantly with leaving the EU, it is a good moment to reflect on what life would be like after an exit for the 2.3 million EU citizens already living in the UK and for those who might wish to come in future.

As Steve Peers pointed out in his blog entry on the effects of exit on UK citizens living in Europe, immigration from within the EU has become one of the major causes of grievance for Euro-sceptics particularly since the accession of poorer Eastern European states (the irony is that it was the a Euro-sceptic government headed by Margaret Thatcher that promoted enlargement of the EU to include Eastern Europe). The difficulty for them however is that a pick-and-mix approach, in which French, Italian or German EU citizens can continue to enter freely but Czechs, Romanians and Bulgarians cannot, will be the most difficult outcome to achieve.

The possible options are:

1. The UK becomes a member of the European Economic Area or negotiates an agreement similar to that between the EU and Switzerland, permitting free movement for workers, self-employed and self-sufficient (including students) on a non-discriminatory basis. This possibility is regularly canvassed as part of a looser free-trade arrangement after exit. These arrangements however include the free movement rights that exist within the EU and their replication could well be made a precondition by the EU for any broader free trade agreement. However, it is precisely these rules that have proved so contentious because they permit the entry of EU citizens from the poorer, mainly Eastern European member states. Even if some negotiation were possible, the EU would not agree to an arrangement that discriminated between the different EU member states. In order to maintain the free entry of prosperous German and French citizens, the UK would still have to permit the admission of the apparently unsuitable Bulgarians and Romanians. It would also have lost most of its ability to influence the overall direction of free movement laws.

2. The UK negotiates bilateral free movement or other agreements with individual member states. This seems an unlikely scenario given the cumbersome and time-consuming nature of such proceedings, and the likely unwillingness of member states to enable the UK to use such a divisive tactic after the disruption of an exit. If they did take place, negotiations would have to proceed on the basis of reciprocity to be politically acceptable and member states are bound by the EU’s immigration policy on visas and admissions which provides a minimum floor of rights for third country nationals in certain situations such as long residence or in cases of family reunification; these would therefore have to be reflected in the UK’s own laws at least so far as these states are concerned. While these EU rights may be less open than those the UK would be ready to offer to the most prosperous member states, that would not necessarily be the case for poorer states. As an EU member state, the UK has succeeded in maintaining its opt-out from the EU’s immigration policy towards third country nationals. There is an irony in the prospect of the UK finding itself bound by such laws, at least in respect of some countries, as a consequence of exit.

3. More likely than the second possibility and more satisfactory in immigration control terms than the first is for the UK to apply its national immigration laws to all EEA citizens and it is this scenario that will be considered in the rest of this blog entry. Legally speaking, such a change would not be difficult to make, requiring only repeal of s 7(1) of the Immigration Act 1988, which provides that leave to enter or remain in the UK under the Immigration Act 1971 is not required by a  person who is entitled to enter the UK by virtue of EU rights. The practical consequences however would be enormous.

EU citizens (and their family members) already in the UK: In practice, it is likely that the position of these individuals would be agreed during the negotiations for exit. If not, those who already possess the right to permanent residence might retain that status or be switched to indefinite leave to remain. Indefinite leave offers fewer protections against deportation than permanent residence and this would raise some interesting questions under both human rights (assuming the UK remained party to the Convention) and domestic law in the event of an attempt to deport. Those who had not yet met the conditions for permanent residence could, in theory, be required to qualify under domestic law or face removal. This is likely to be difficult for most given the narrowness of domestic law as discussed below. Removing or changing the status of these individuals is likely to lead to legal challenges as they see their plans to live in the UK long-term demolished or the terms of residence adjusted to their detriment long after they had acted in the expectation of a particular route to residence (see, for example, the cases of R (on the application of HSMP Forum Ltd) v SSHD [2008] EWHC 664 (Admin) and R (on the application of HSMP Forum (UK) Ltd) v SSHD [2009] EWHC 711 (Admin)). Given this and the numbers involved, the government would have to find an acceptable policy for dealing with these individuals. It is likely therefore that most of those EU citizens who are already exercising their Treaty rights in the UK would be permitted to remain while they continue to exercise those rights, with the prospect of obtaining permanent residence or indefinite leave in due course. Those who are not exercising their rights, usually the unemployed, would however become easier to remove permanently as they would no longer have enhanced rights under Directive 2004/38. The interpretation of free movement rights would therefore continue to be relevant for many years following exit, although the UK would be unable to influence either its legislative or jurisprudential evolution.

EU citizens (and their family members) who wish to come to the UK: These individuals would be subject to the full force of British immigration law, in particular the immigration rules. While these are binding on the government, thereby providing some measure of predictability, they are byzantine and change repeatedly. Applications are expensive to make and carry a high risk of refusal, particularly from poorer countries. Evidential requirements are complex and highly prescriptive. Appeal rights are limited and are set to be restricted still further when new provisions in the Immigration Act 2014 are implemented.  Applicants whose exclusion is deemed conducive to the public good, who have been convicted of criminal offences (other than minor ones), have made or been the subject of false representations or have previously breached immigration control (except in minor ways) will be refused as may those who provide incomplete information or documentation, have committed a recent minor offence or whose admission is viewed as problematic in other ways. Once present in the UK, they remain liable to deportation in a range of circumstances.

The process of entering the UK would become more complicated and time-consuming, even for a for a short meeting or weekend visit.  While some EU member states may be exempted from visa requirements for visits, they would still need to satisfy the immigration authorities on entry and all EU citizens would be subject to the long queues at entry points that are currently faced by those from outside the EU. In theory, EU citizens could be asked to establish that they meet all the requirements for entry as a visitor to the UK, including funds, intention to return and lack of intention to work, before being admitted.

All EU citizens would need to obtain a visa if they wish to come to the UK for long term purposes such as for work, study or family reunification. This is expensive and requires the supply of biometric information. It is often difficult to meet the substantive criteria for entry in these categories, a consequence of the current policy to reduce net migration.
·   
Work and Self-Employment: Opportunities for unsponsored highly skilled migration under Tier 1 have now almost entirely disappeared. The ‘Exceptional Talent’ scheme permits a maximum of 1,000 admissions a year by those who are already world leaders or likely to become so in their field. Entrepreneurs with access to capital may enter to establish a business as may those with very large sums of capital (at least £1 million) available for investment. Most admissions for work are now under Tier 2 of the Points-Based System. This requires an approved sponsor, a minimum salary and a job offer either in a shortage occupation or a post which has already been advertised to the domestic job market and failed to recruit. Temporary employment and artistic and sporting engagements are covered by Tier 5 and also require a sponsor. The over-elaborate requirements of Tier 5 have been widely criticised as inhibiting cultural and other exchanges, problems which would now affect all those coming from the EU as artists, sportspeople religious workers or charitable volunteers.

·         Study: Students coming from the EU would no longer be eligible for home fees or loans and would have to obtain a student visa under Tier 4. They would have to be sponsored by an approved institution, may enter only for full-time courses and may spend only a certain number of years in the UK as a student. They would also need to meet the criteria for the issue of a student visa including the financial requirements, showing that they or their parents have access to thousands of pounds held in approved bank accounts and that they can speak English to the satisfaction of the entry clearance officer.  They would be able to work only as approved by the terms of the student visa and their sponsor would have to monitor their attendance and report suspected non-compliance in the same way as for non-EU students.

·         Family: It is now almost impossible for an elderly parent or other dependent relative to enter the UK to live with a UK-settled sponsor and this would apply to EU citizens who wish to join their adult children or other family members in the UK. Children could still join both parents, subject to financial and accommodation criteria, but, where one parent lives outside the UK, it would no longer usually be possible for an EU citizen child to join the UK parent. EU spouses and partners would be required to establish the genuine nature of their relationship and their intention to live together.  The provisions in the Immigration Act 2014 which provide for the investigation of suspected sham marriages and possible prohibition of the marriage would also apply to marriages involving EU citizens. Partners would have to show adequate accommodation and that the UK sponsor earns at least £18,600 pa, demonstrated in the manner required by the rules.  As almost half of the UK population is unable to meet the income requirement (more in many regions), it would become much more difficult for UK citizens marrying EU citizens to live with their partner in the UK.

·         Indefinite leave: It is usually more difficult to obtain indefinite leave to remain under domestic law than it is to obtain permanent residence under EU law. As already mentioned, there is a greater liability to revocation of indefinite leave and deportation than under EU law. It is therefore a less secure status than permanent residence.

Conclusion

Those advocating the exit of the UK from the EU as a solution to unwanted intra-EU immigration do not seem to have grasped the unpalatable nature of the alternatives even in the terms of their own anti-immigration agenda. Maintaining the benefits of free access to Europe for UK citizens will almost certainly involve accepting inward movement from the entire EU on terms which are similar to those existing today but accompanied by the loss of influence that an exit implies. Alternatively, the UK can choose an isolationist position and apply domestic immigration controls to EU citizens. The price will be the loss of innumerable business, educational and cultural opportunities as movement from Europe becomes more difficult, and likely increased difficulties for UK citizens who may no longer take for granted their own privileged access to Europe for work, education, holidays or retirement.


Barnard & Peers: chapter 2, chapter 13


203 comments:

  1. Proponents of Brit -Euro exit are yet to deeply think through their intend action.

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    1. ...or, indeed, to think about it at all.

      I haven't come across a single legal or human rights expert who says it's a good idea. They all say that the benefits will be minimal and the drawbacks will be many, the process lengthy and expensive no matter what avenue Britain takes. And for what? To reduce immigration by a thimbleful and assert the exact same level of control over Britain that that Britain already has? That's a raw deal when you exchange it for being cut off from easy access to Europe forever and saddled with lower trade, and higher debt.

      The Economist puts it most bluntly: "The immediate effects of a Brexit vote are likely to be bad". Open Europe points out that the only way it might be a financial boon would be if total "deregulation" (e.g. privatization) was implemented. Think McBritain's bad now? You'll be in for a shock after Brexit...

      Everyone should take time to read about the consequences before they vote on this - it's a lifelong commitment. And people who aren't planning to vote at all should take time to do so. Otherwise, the kneejerk minority will win... again.

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  2. Thank you so very much for this overview. It is incredibly helpful. These are scary times for a lot of us in the UK.

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  3. Genuinely don't know why the UK dislikes Czech so much, its one of the richest countries in EU and their economy is on the rise right now. However British economy kinda sucks, more people are using food banks and British pensioners are the poorest in EU. I hope that if they leave EU the same conditions will apply to them too. Deport lazy British people back to thwir country.

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    1. The British are not lazy. Shall we be kind towards each other?

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    2. I am sorry but I think they are. Surely, lazier than the immigrant workforce in their country. Which is not inherently bad, for many reasons, I am just supporting the previous poster.

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    3. I don't understand why Czechs are disliked in the UK.
      I went to the Czech Republic on a 3-month contract which ended up as over 16 years and me taking up citizenship.
      The quality of life in the Czech Republic is far better than in the UK, the people hard-working.

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    4. Remember many of us in the UK love being Europeans and have nothing against Czech or any other EU citizens. We will be the real losers here in the worst case scenario: trapped on our island with the little Englanders.

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    5. Well said!! Im originally from Latvia but have lived in the UK for half of my life, people need to build "good " bridges over sensible moats, not "evil" walls

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    6. If Czech is so wealthy, why are we giving them OUR jobs? It makes no sense at all!! If its such a wonderful place to live, why are they living here?
      Baffled!!

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    7. One could equally ask why 1-2 million British people live in the EU, never mind the rest of the world...Should we all stay in our own countries, no one ever working or studying in another country, or ever loving someone from another country?

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    8. How many of YOUR jobs is provided by non -British companies? Leave EU and many of you or us won't have a job at all..... Is that a better scenario for you?

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    9. Well said ��

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    10. Nice of you to think the British are lazy. It's that type of arrogance we don't need in this country. Thinking you own the place is why Brexit should happen. Remember, we didn't join europe for freedom of movement, it was for trade, the EU has slowly changed the rules since and the British (you know, the one's whose country this is) have had enough)

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    11. Free movement of persons applied from the very day the UK joined the EEC and has always been part and parcel of membership - directly connected to trade. The UK has voted for every change in the rules on free movement of people that have happened since.

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    12. I am Polish and living in UK more than 10 years ,half of my adult "childhood" , When Poland became part of EU I was glad of possibility of free movement across the europe I chosen UK as english language was more familar so easier going to communicate on new living trip . Personally prefered to move in to the Spain and relaxing after hard work day on their beaches where is more warmer days in year then my home country . English people likes Spain too ,I think that human freedom and our right to move wherever we want to be is most beautiful thing in our short life . Everyone "Civilized and peace man kind " should have right to movement where he want to go by unlimited time .

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  4. I sincerely hope that all cards will be laid on the table if a referendum is held and that the British people currently living in the UK will consider all of the implications of a Brexit, before voting.

    If 2.3 million ex- patriots are forced to return to the UK because they have lost their jobs and accommodations in EU countries, what will happen to them when they arrive in the UK?

    Think of it- 2.3 million ex-patriots returning to a small island in a short period of time. That is a lot of people and some of them may take your jobs/ after all they are British and many have gained international experience.
    Others may be sick, or receiving old age pensions- some may be on unemployment or disability benefits in other countries. They will lose these benefits.
    Will 90 year old ex-patriots be kicked out of EU nursing homes? Where will they go?
    I don't think the UK will let 2.3 million British people starve and roam the street homeless- would be a bit messy.
    I read that the British do not care about us ex-pats. We can starve and be homeless according to some. If we do starve, who will foot the bill for our funerals? The taxpayer?

    I doubt that the top bankers will foot the bill- they are too interested in their bonuses.....

    Will the UK really be better off leaving the EU?
    If being a member of the EU is so terrible, why is the UK doing so well now? Does UK economic growth have anything to do with being a EU member? Wasn't GDP up because there was more consumer buying? Wasn't a lot of buying done by immigrants?

    There are 2 sides to a coin- there are many facet to life. Not every consequence can be foreseen. Be careful. Think things through. Shall we be a caring world? To the above anonymous- why are the British lazy? And the spelling is "their" country.
    Perhaps one day you will be glad that there is a UK.

    Good luck to us all. God knows there are enough challenges facing humanity.

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    1. Yes at least you are thinking things through properly. We are pensioners in Spain and if we lose our healthcare we will just have to leave our homes snd go back to the uk. We know lots of people in the same position who no longer have homes in the uk. We will all need homes, plus we will want bus passes tv licences benefits etc that we are entitled to once we get back there.,think people I don't think any of the govenment or ukip have given us a thought.

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    2. How many of these 2.3 million UK citizens that live in the EU are actually working in their host countries? I would of thought that most of those living in Spain and France are retirees, especially when you look at the parlous state of Spain's and France's economy.

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    3. Well put,I have lived in the EU for over 15yrs now retired for quite some time.To be told by my electorial register person that I can no longer vote for my right to decide if I want to stay in the EU is shorely a breach of my human rights. Considering my past famiiy fought in two World wars to preserve our freedom to decide.

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    4. Whilst I understand your point, it should be noted that moving to permanently live in another country requires some loyalty to the country you live in. Apart from that, you left to further your life somewhere else, you don't live here anymore, so why should you get the right to vote in Britain's future. You didn't waste time leaving it in your rear view when you felt like it.

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  5. My parents are German and British, my brothers and sisters are British, but I hold German citizenship because unknown to us, Margaret Thatcher changed the law, requiring me to claim UK citizenship before my 18th birthday. I used to be upset by this, but it has turned out to be a good thing and I would not want to give up my German citizenship.

    I live in the UK with my British wife and British children and it, more than any other country, has been my home for the last 30 years. I own a UK-based company and have brought millions of pounds into the economy from Europe and beyond. I am an active contributor to society, regularly organizing events which promote dialogue, spread knowledge and generate wealth for the UK. Thousands of people have benefited from my free work in this way. Perhaps tens of thousands.

    But, because of the potential for Brexit, the referendum, and the anti-foreigner sentiment, we have begun to think about my status as a foreigner, about actively looking for somewhere else in the world to live, and have decided to diversify, shifting investment out of the UK; we will not wait until we are pushed.

    Perhaps Spain, where some of my family have recently settled. Or maybe one of the other 3 countries where we hold property. For many people this would be an enormous change, but we've moved between countries twice before, and can move again.

    Financially and because of my contribution to society, it certainly would be a loss to the UK for us to leave - and I don't want to. I like living in Britain. But I don't need to, and don't really want to live where I am unwelcome. I take anti-foreigner sentiment too personally perhaps. But I doubt I'm alone.

    I'm not sure that any of this is an unintended consequence, after all, it's exactly the point of leaving the EU, to not have foreigners, but you don't get to have my net positive contribution without me, and it is already a consequence that jobs that I had planned to place in the UK will not now be here. In this way the UK has already lost out.

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    1. Why don't you just apply for British Citizenship? You should fulfill all the requirements. It will cost you up to £1000 but it sounds like it would be worthwhile for you and you wont have to give up your German passport either.

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    2. Why apply for BC and be subject to a government which wants to break all treaties with his born country? Why trusting UK and become citizen of a country which is incapable to guarantee the future of any pact?
      The answer, mate, is that he could... but he should not.

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    3. I am also a foreigner. Why would anyone change the nationality? I was born Portuguese and will stay like that until I die. Besides I don't want to change my status from citizen to subject sorry about that.
      On the other hand I certainly have seen thousands of Russians and Indians living in UK and not all have BC and certainly they are not EU citizens without it, so how come they are still here?

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    4. Eu or no Eu Britain can an never get rid of immigrants

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    5. To the German with the UK based company. It's really obvious that the British hates us immigrants thinking we are robbing them with their jobs, benefits,schools, houses,nhs, etc. They think they should be above any other EU nationals. But they didn't get to think that most companies in the UK are German and Japan owned which provides jobs to everyone living here. And we as immigrants when we get here in UK we look for a job, work hard and pay tax. We are not exempted to pay tax. Tax they use to provide benefits most especially to the British people.The British should react if we pay less tax than them.My husband has a friend who worked here for 6 years.. paid tax but then can't claim benefits even if he is very ill. He is a Portuguese.Immigrants can't just comes here to UK and get benefits that easy. If the British thinks that immigrants claiming benefits here is as easy as one click then they are wrong.. Just invest more in countries which welcomes us as foreigners no matter where we come from.For example Philippines.. lots of investors go there coz labor is cheap there. If I'm a businessman I would choose to pay £300 and get 2 customer service agents to work for me than pay £700 to just one customer service agent in UK.for £700 I can already have 4 agents to work for me. Cost saving... Make sense right?

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    6. I am English. I completely agree with the German business man I for one am all for staying in the European union. I have friends who are Czech and I would like to see them become residents. They are very hard workers. The problem is there are allot of people who are judging The Eu without thinking about the consequences. I also agree with the people who have retired abroad especially when they have fought for there country only to be left homeless. Its not right we should all vote too stay in the EU the benefits far out weight the disadvantages. As I said I am English and am all for eu staying with us. Please stay in the eu. Don't leave there is too much too loose and our relationship with the European union is important.

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    7. Whichever decision is taken from the referendum, there will be no easy time. No-one expects an easy ride if we leave europe, but the point of leaving is an important one. Countries like Germany will always top the heap, calling more shots than anyone else in the EU, so they wouldn't dream of doing this. Britain built the systems that make it so attractive to come to at the cost of the British. In return we have laws we don't want imposed on us, uncontrolled immigration and the VERY cheap shot answer to us wanting to call a halt to it is the usual rubbish about the british not wanting to work. News for you, British and I work hard. There are always lazy people in a country that has a benefits system, but Britain is no worse than any other. We know there will be years of building back up if we leave, but there are principles to uphold here. The EU has power over it's member states it should never have. No-one agreed to a federal europe, but it's almost here, sneaked in one piece at a time.

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    8. Since the UK has voted for 95% of EU laws adopted since 1999, it's highly misleading to refer to laws 'imposed upon us'. Equally the idea of 'EU power over its Member States' profoundly misunderstands how the EU works - Treaty amendments, enlargements and key EU laws have to be approved by all its Member States and other EU laws have to be approved by a large majority of them, and it's rare for Member States to be outvoted.

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    9. The "have nots" have been led to believe that the issues in Uk are from Immigrants. "Have Nots" need to ask themselves, if Britain were to rid of immigrants, would the Benefits and pensions automatically increase?, would the taxes and VAT be lower ?, would the living standards improve?, would Landlords decide to charge less ?, will companies pay more to workers?, a bit of common sense should be applied.

      Experts say that Brexit would be bad for both sides (EU and UK), that's a double negative. If we leave and for some reason the EU has a negative run, it will affects UK. I watched question time and a Leave supporter was asked what UK should do about renegotiation with EU and America, and he didn't have an answer. However much the leave campaigners want to leave, many have not thought about the reality of what may or may not follow.

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  6. Interesting read, thank you... I've lived and worked in the UK for nine years, and I'd hate to leave, but may not be left with another choice...

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  7. Very helpful thank you.
    I have lived and worked in the UK as an EEA national for 14 years. Should I apply for permanent residence? Or British citizenship? As protection

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    1. Either form of status would indeed provide protection of your right to stay in the country. It's possible that a post-Brexit arrangement would fully ensure it, but that's not guaranteed.

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    2. I think UK nationals should start applying for other nationalities because if UK leaves EU this will become very ugly around here

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  8. Yesterday I officially applied for naturalization in the EU country where I live. Everyone must take and pass an exam assessing language skills, knowledge of the countries history, society, habits etc before being able to apply for citizenship. It does not matter if you have lived here for 50 years.
    There are exceptions however in the case of "severe illness". One must see a special medical doctor, appointed by the government, who will assess your ability to take the exam. It is difficult but not impossible to get an exemption on medical grounds. But the terms are very strict.There must be no chance of recovery within 5 years and your ability to speak the native language is also noted and considered very important. It is mentioned in the medical report. So this is not just a medical examination. The doctor also wants to know if you have taken any courses in the where you are living and elsewhere. So, they assess your health, chance of recovery within 5 years, your language skills and note your level of education.

    Naturalization: You must have a birth certificate with an apostille (special stamp). The City Council will assess it's validity. You must have a certificate that you passed the special citizenship exam or an exemption from a special doctor, due to very poor health- without a chance or recovery within 5 years.
    You may not have a criminal record.
    You pay when you apply for naturalization 840 euro. This does not cover other costs however, like the medical exam or the citizenship's course and examination.

    The naturalization procedure can take a year before you hear the results.
    Unless married to a citizen of this country, you must promise to give up your British citizenship after becoming naturalized .I am not sure if all countries have the same policy. But I must give up my British citizenship if I become nationalized.

    I advise anyone who is rightly concerned about the possibilities of a Brexit to seriously consider becoming nationalized. If is obvious from many comments posted in british newspapers that many British people do not care at all about expatriates. I do not know if you will have the right to a home or whatever in Great Britain, if you are forced to leave the EU country where you are now residing. There are many homeless in the UK.
    Do not count on too much understanding or sympathy-either from the British government or many of the British people.

    To keep this positive, the UK could vote to stay in. But the stress up to the referendum can be difficult to handle, because we just don't know what will happen.

    But be careful, be informed. Also be careful about your source of information. I called several government agencies and got different advice from them all. Please research matters thoroughly, get written replies and good luck to us all.

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    1. I'm a British citizen living in republic of Ireland for the last 15 years. I have never considered changing my nationality before, but if Britain leaves EU it would make sense to become a Irish citizen. Two of my children hold Irish passports, which I did simply for ease. (passport easy to get via post office for E30 as apposed to E150 for a British one)
      Im very angry that I am not allowed to vote in referendum. The misinformation I hear on the bbc and sky news is shocking. Do the british really think they can leave EU and get rid of all the things they don't like but still keep all the benefits. Yep, they are so arrogant they really think they can.

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  9. P.S. In order to obtain a permanent residency permit where I live, one must also take the citizenship course/ and pass the exam. I also understand that this permanent residency status can be withdrawn later. So, it is not that permanent.

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  10. To the German gentleman (23 May). I very much appreciate your comment. I am sure there are many " good" people in the UK, but this anti-foreign mentality is not acceptable. I am glad you are not furthering your investment in Britain at this moment.
    I was told of a British website yesterday where I could buy something online.
    I have decided to boycott British products however and will look elsewhere.

    Steve, I have posted several comments on your blog. We discussed the WTO trade agreement. The US could not stop trading with the UK because of this trade deal. This is true. But other possibilities remain that can affect trade.

    A week or so ago I remembered something. When France did not support the USA on the Iraq war (I was not in favour of it myself), the American people were furious. What did they do? They boycotted French products. I will post a news article from Fox News. It is long, so I will use another comment space. What is also interesting is that Fox News is owned by Murdoch. See below for how consumers can affect trade with the UK.

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  11. Here is some of the article.

    Published February 19, 2003
    FoxNews.com

    "Jokes about France are plentiful lately, but many Americans aren't laughing at the European country's resistance to using force with Iraq -- and are fighting back by closing their wallets.

    In fact, beaucoup d'Americans have decided to boycott French products such as wine and cheese, in an effort to hurt the country's economy.

    Fromage.com, a French cheese distributor, reported that its sales to the United States have gone down 15 percent in the past two weeks. Some U.S. eateries are no longer offering French wines. And a restaurant in North Carolina has even changed the name of its fries.

    Neal Rowland, who owns Cubbie's restaurant in Beaufort, N.C., said he decided to put stickers that say "Freedom" over the word "French" on all his menus after he watched France back away from support for war in Iraq.

    "Since the French are backing down , French fries and French everything needs to be banned," he told Foxnews.com in a telephone interview.

    If the backlash is strong enough, it could impact the French economy -- American trade with France tops $30 billion a year.

    U.S. lawmakers are also eager to remind the French that Americans bailed them out in both World Wars, at a cost of tens of thousands of lives. Some in Congress are even pursuing possible trade restrictions.

    Rep. H. James Saxton, a New Jersey Republican, has drafted a resolution that calls for a U.S. boycott of the Paris Air Show this spring.

    "If [the Chirac government] fails to find a way to cooperate, we'll urge U.S. citizens, companies and the military to forego participation," Saxton told WorldNetDaily.com.
    House Speaker Dennis Hastert said he'd like to target bottled French mineral water and wine.
    He has instructed Republican colleagues to determine whether Congress should pass laws that would impose new health standards on bottles of Evian and other French waters.

    According to the Beverage Marketing Corporation, France is the leading exporter of water to the United States and sold 65 million gallons last year.

    It's not the first time Americans have boycotted French products. Back in 1985 when the French would not allow U.S. military planes to fly over their airspace on their way to bomb Libya, U.S. consumers boycotted industries, including fashion, food and wine. And a similar boycott happened in 1995 and 1996 when France refused to stop testing nuclear weapons in the South Pacific.

    So the WTO could be just a piece of paper. Like I said, Americans take their security interests very seriously. Anything that might be perceived as a security risk, might have unforeseen effects for the UK.
    A weaker EU because of a Brexit- happy Putin- angry USA (consumer and politician). Wallets closed for British products, stricter legislation for British products ....who knows?

    I am boycotting British products already.

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  12. Been living as an EU citizen in the UK for 15 years. I've not claimed 1 penny of benefits, and have supported my non EU wife while being here. With my current job, I pay around £1500 in income tax per month, and I am one of hundreds of Europeans who work for just my organisation. It's primarily this that really gets to me when I hear all this anti-EU sentiment as I pay 100s of times more into the system than most of the British people I lived with on the various council estates when I first got here.

    My child is born here and is British, and my wife recently naturalised. I wonder what would happen to me if Britain suddenly decided to exit the EU.


    I have no plans of paying the extortionate fee of £1005 to naturalise as I see no point in doing so, but I do hope that the government won't just tarnish us all of an exit happens. They really need to think it through and assess each case. To be honest, considering my contributions to this country, I like to feel that I have earned the right to be treated fairly in the event of an exit. Not getting my hopes up though...

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    1. Hello I couldn't agree with you more! I've been living here as an EU national for a quarter century. Curiously I get to vote, but only because I'm also Australian IE commonwealth... I have no intention of forking out one grand to naturalise. I admire the British am fond of them and enjoy living here most days but I do not and never will feel British. Having paid taxes here for 21 years and worked hard for the HE system here I believe I've earned the right to continue living here. On the other hand Brexit would make me feel less welcome and I may then decide to leave. By the way there are tens of thousands of Brits in my two countries IE Italy and Australia. If I'm treated badly here then I dare say they will also face difficulties. My daughter is lucky she has all options open with three citizenships uk eu and Aussie...

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  13. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That depends on the EU/UK deal, if there is one, or failing that national law. It's unlikely that in either case the UK would seek to expel EU citizens who have been here for decades, but there's no guarantee.

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  14. I'm a German citizen who has lived and worked in the UK for 42 years. I'm due to retire from my current employment next summer, around the time of the planned referendum, and I'm uncertain about my residence status if the referendum supports the UK leaving the EU

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    1. See answer to the previous question.

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  15. We are ex-pats living in France. We spend money on improving our home here, on meals in restaurants, and all things French, we have never taken a cent out of the French system and have paid all bills including tax on time. We love France and want to remain here and I'm sure there are many French living in the UK that want to do the same, surely some form of common sense should allow decent hard working citizens to live without wondering if they're going to have it all taken away by political decisions that only cause insecurity and reduced motivation.

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  16. I'm a UK citizen, my wife is German. We moved to UK in 2007. Trying to get reassurances from local MP about future status of EU people here is laughable, because no-one knows what (if any) the contingency plans are? The "OUT" people don't care if they break up families and cause misery.

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  17. I'm a UK citizen and my wife is also German, same as previous poster, I wanted to ask if anyone knows the details surrounding taxation post Brexit? We own our property in the UK and reading other articles about the changes to capital gains tax on foreign owned property (France from circa 20% in EU, to 49% outside EU) and we are wondering how this affects us. Any resources on this subject would be appreciated.

    Also, someone referred earlier to the German gentleman gaining dual citizenship, but from what I understand, a German citizen can only hold dual citizen with a member of another EU country, if the UK exits the EU then won't this be null and void, and they would have wasted their £1000? Clarification on this would be useful as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your comments, Paul. It would seem a little harsh to apply German citizenship law retroactively but maybe that would happen - perhaps someone has looked into this further and can clarify? As for taxation, there is a ban on discriminatory taxation between EU Member States but that doesn't protect non-EU Member States unless there is a treaty between the EU as a whole or the individual Member State and the non-Member State. The EEA treaty between the EU, Norway and Iceland bans discriminatory taxation in general, and the WTO and EU trade agreements with third states ban tax discrimination on goods, but otherwise the EU does not usually sign treaties relating to bans on discriminatory taxation of capital with non-EU countries. It might possibly choose to make an exception in the UK's case, but that is far from guaranteed. Or a bilateral tax treaty between the UK and that country might be relevant.

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  18. I have a query about Irish citizens living in the UK post a Brexit vote. How will they be affected. I believe they will have voting rights in the referundum. Combine them with a possible Scottish block vote and maybe the Leavers won't have as easy a ride as the tabloids expect.

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    Replies
    1. They have the vote. UK law treats Irish citizens the same as UK citizens. But Irish citizens with family members who are not British or Irish would have a harder time bringing the family members in since the family rules for UK citizens are much stricter than those for EU citizens.

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    2. Sorry, I don't quite understand your answer. I was under the impression that Ireland had significantly more relaxed laws regarding bringing in non-EU spouses than the UK does? In which case, a question: would a UK citizen (but one who has a right to claim Irish citizenship by virtue of two Irish-born grandparents) who hopes eventually to bring a future-spouse (and her children) over from China, be wise to move to Ireland at the present time, to facilitate this? The marriage itself isn't imminent due to personal circumstances on both sides, but just looking ahead?

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    3. I was referring to Irish citizens living in the UK, who sought to bring family members to join them. If the family members were not themselves Irish it might be harder to bring them in after Brexit, since the rules on admission of UK citizens will apply. But the gap in the rules between admission of family of UK citizens and of other EU citizens will diminish as a result of the renegotiation deal. So while I can't advise on individual cases, a move to another Member State and a marriage before the new rules take effect would probably be a good idea.

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    4. How annoying is that. As a British Citizen living in Ireland I have no rights to vote in any referendum here and there have been a few in the last 15 years I have been here. yet an Irish citizen living in Britain can vote in British referendum. Britain is a notoriously xenophobic country, I will be very surprised if they vote to stay in EU.

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  19. Thank you for this very informative article.

    My name is Patrick, and my wife and I are French citizens (by birth) who have been living and working in the UK for the last 16 years. We created a little UK company that currently has no other employees than ourselves, which makes us self-employed in the UK. Our two children are now adults and live abroad. We only own a little house on a mortgage in the UK and nothing abroad. We have always managed all right financially, but I can’t say we are very well off.

    Over the years, I have sort-of fallen in love with the UK and I would be deeply sorry if, for whatever reason, I was forced to leave the UK and have to return to France.

    Would it be a good idea for my wife and I to seek naturalisation as UK Citizens before a Brexit or some other change in regulation make it more complicated?
    Would it be difficult or expensive for us to become naturalised?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a good chance that the UK and the remaining EU could agree to protect the position of those EU and UK citizens who were already resident at the time of Brexit. But that is not guaranteed. Naturalisation would provide an absolute guarantee. You could look into it but it is fairly expensive.

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  20. I can appreciate the concern of those living in the UK on EU passports. All I can say is, I would be stunned if the vote is anything other than to stay in. The only question is what the margin of the "stay in" vote will be. Despite all evidence to the contrary when you read some on-line comments, and I#m no fan of the EU oligarchy, I still have a great faith in the UK electorate to do the sensible thing - and to stay part of the EU and change it from the inside.

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  21. What happens to people like my daughter if UK leaves the EU? She has retained her UK citizenship (born in UK to UK parents), has been married to a German for 20 years, works and pays taxes in Germany and has two German sons. Would she be allowed to stay automatically, or would she have to go through all the endless paperwork for a whole series of expensive visas in order to remain in Germany as a non-EU citizen? I know about this as we have spent thousands of pounds and covered acres of paperwork over the last 10 years to keep my Thai daughter-in-law in the UK and she is still on a temporary discretionary extension.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That depends partly on the UK/EU relationship after Brexit. There may well be a treaty covering the position of everyone who has established their lives in one side or the other. But in any event anyone with ties as strong as your daughter's should not have a problem staying in Germany: she would qualify as a long-term resident under EU law, and probably under the national version of long-term resident status, and would obviously also have a right to family life under the European Convention on Human Rights. You are probably right to say, however, that her life may become more complicated on a day-to-day level, having to spend more time and money applying for a residence permit and its renewal.

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    2. Thanks, that makes sense....her regular visits to me in UK should be covered by her UK passport; but what about my German grandsons with German papers who often bring friends over to stay with me? Everyone to have expensive and cumbersome visas each visit??? Including their German father, who enjoys visiting as well? What a mess.

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    3. After Brexit, the position of EU citizens visiting the UK for short periods would be covered by any EU/UK agreement on this issue, or failing that UK national law. It's unlikely that the UK would impose a visa requirement on any EU countries, since the EU could then retaliate by imposing a visa requirement for UK citizens to visit any EU country. There's no guarantee that this wouldn't happen though - it's possible that some sort of panic about Romanians (for instance) would lead to UK visa requirements for some Member States, which in turn lead to EU-wide retaliation.

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  22. " apparently unsuitable Bulgarians and Romanians"
    Right, however we're not the ones performing honour killings and forcing universities to adopt halal meat and provide us with prayer rooms.
    We have integrated quite well and we don't have ridiculous demands. Take a look at the real people who don't integrate and have no respect for British culture.

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    Replies
    1. Stop blaming and hating others.That won't change your situation!!

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  23. Talking about EU citizens visa.
    If UK is to leave the EU then all UK citizens would need a visa to get to France... They would need a schengen visa and that takes ages to process. So suddenly British hauliers would be out of business. THINK EU WOULD BE A MIRROR IMAGE TO UK IN VISA, a like for like.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. An EU/UK deal would address this issue. Failing that the EU would decide unilaterally. Based on the EU's policy the key question would be whether the UK imposed visa requirements on any EU countries. So probably UK citizens could travel visa-free as long as the UK refrained from imposing visas on Bulgaria and Romania - which some politicians might want to do. There would be extra checks at the border however, since the faster track for EU citizens would not apply to the UK unless there is a deal on full EU/UK free movement of people; that seems unlikely since most people on the Leave side dislike free movement of people.

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  24. UK leaving EU? That means NATO exit, just how vulnerable would the UK be? THINK?

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    1. No reason why a state which leaves EU has to leave NATO.

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  25. Hi, I have two short questions if you'd be able to answer:

    1. In the event of an out result of the referendum, I've read that the Lisbon treaty allows for a maximum of 2 years for renegotiating all treaties and a leaving country's relationship with the EU, before the EU Treaties would cease to apply(ie: the formal leaving). The question is: this means that, during that transitional time, the UK would still be a EU member? To me, that's what derives from the leaving procedure as defined by the Lisbon treaty.

    2. I am a Romanian citizen, working in the UK for over 5 years and I have applied and obtained the permanent residence. Would this offer any assurance of my status in the UK, in the eventuality of a Brexit? It seems hard to imagine that any legislation would apply retroactively in such a case. Even in the Ukip manifesto (and they're not exactly ecstatic about European migrants) they've stated that, should they have won the election, they wouldn't deport immigrants holding permanent residence.
    Many thanks for any insight.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, the UK would remain a Member State until it leaves. It is possible to change the two year time frame by unanimous consent. I think it is unlikely that there would be deportation of people here legally before Brexit, but there's no guarantee of this.

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  26. I have one question I m Belgium citizen if I want to move to uk for living if uk leave eu .then I need to apply for visa ? Or can move freely for living ?

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    Replies
    1. Before Brexit, you could move to the UK without a visa using EU free movement law. Your status after Brexit would depend on any UK/EU deal, or failing that UK law. If you plan to move to the UK after Brexit, that would equally depend on any UK/EU deal or national law. But since most critics of the EU dislike free movement of people, the UK is unlikely to sign up to it after Brexit. While it is unlikely that the UK would impose a visa requirement for short visits, there would very likely be some sort of immigration control for EU citizens who wished to move to the UK permanently.

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  27. Steve,
    It's so refreshing reading your comments on the practicalities of EU law, rather than the prejudices and half truths we usually are served up with in the British press.

    On a practical point, I am a UK national planning to retire to Germany. At the weekend I heard a worrying report that Cameron is considering applying an "emergency break" on EU migration. If he gets his way on this, do you think it is likely to apply both ways i.e. UK nationals wishing to move to another EU state could be stopped? If so, could he bring it into force ahead of the Referendum? That would surely be shot down in a legal ruling? Also, I heard that Michael Gove was investigating whether the European Charter of Fundamental Rights could be tightened on the issue of EU Migration.
    I am 62 and planning to live off my UK local government pension. I can demonstrate I would not be a burden on the German state.
    Do you think I have anything to worry about regarding residence in Germany?

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    Replies
    1. Thanks, Alex. The intention is that the 'emergency brake' would apply to in-work benefits, not to the numbers coming to the UK. It seems the plan is that this will indeed apply to other Member States too. The position should be clearer once the draft text is published (due on February 2, 2016). There are plans to limit the effect of the Charter in UK law but again it's not clear what exactly that might mean in the absence of a text. UK nationals retiring in Germany should be fine as long as the changes don't affect this category of people. So far there's no indication that they will. Of course there is a bigger possibility that they would be affected in the event of Brexit - unless either the UK and EU agree to continue with free movement of persons, or at least to protect the legal position of all those who move before the Brexit date.

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    2. Make sure that your UK pension will be uprated annually if you move abroad! UK state pensions paid abroad are "frozen" for most countries. They are uprated at present when paid to EU countries, but that could change after a Brexit. No politician will provide reassurance on this issue.

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  28. I'm a Belgian citizen and I'm planning to live in the UK permanently, so if UK leaves from EU- will be there be requirements for someone like me to live in there such as specific income etc?? Thank you in advance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That depends on whether the UK and EU agree to keep free movement law in force, or some more limited version of it, or at least agree to protect the legal position of people who are already resident on Brexit day. There is a good chance they will at least agree the latter, but it's not guaranteed. It's also not clear if 'grandfathering' people who are already in the UK would mean that they will still be able to get permanent residence in the future (ie after Brexit Day), or that the previous rules would still apply if they lost a job after that date.

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  29. My daughter is currently in her first year at university in The Netherlands. Is it possible that she would have to pay Non-EU fees next year - something we can't afford?

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    Replies
    1. The Treaty says that EU withdrawal would take place two years after notification of the departure, unless the UK and the remaining EU agree differently. So that would be mid-2018 at the earliest. A student who started doing a three-year course in 2015 should therefore not be affected.

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  30. I'm a brit (22) studying in the Netherlands, where the tuition fees are ~2000EUR per year (the reason I chose to study here). Tuition fees for non-EU/EEA students are ~8500EUR per year. There is no loan system in place; I am living off my savings which I worked supermarket and factory jobs for for four years. If my fees increase, I will have to return to Britain and my efforts, money and years of my life will all have been wasted. I am NOT a unique case!

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    Replies
    1. Thanks for your question. See my reply to another Anonymous (one of them) on 20th Feb. [Sorry but I can't quite keep up with the large number of questions or always answer them in order at the moment] If your last year in uni comes after Brexit Day I think it's likely that the UK and EU would do a deal which would preserve the status of those already legally resident, but that's not guaranteed.

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  31. I'm an Irish citizen studying at a UK university (part-time distance learning Masters). I have paid for 2 years (I'm in my second year) but I have one more year after this. If Britain leaves the EU, does that mean that I will have to start paying "Overseas" fees from next September? Or if other EU students do have to pay, will the fact that I am Irish help me? Thanks.

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    1. The rules say that 'Brexit' would take place two years after the withdrawal from the EU was notified, or a different date if the UK and EU agree. I can't see how it would take place this year already, as there would be too much to negotiate. So there should still be equal treatment for EU students in 2016-17 at least. In fact there is an Act of Parliament which anyway says that Irish people should be treated as if they were UK nationals. There is nothing to indicate that this law would be amended or repealed after Brexit - although it would certainly be easier to change that rule if anyone wished to do so after Brexit.

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  32. Hi Steve. I'm from Poland and I came to the UK with my family 8 years ago. My parents are taxpayers. Me and my brother are studying. If the UK decides to leave the EU, would we have to leave the UK? Thanks.

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    Replies
    1. No one on the 'Leave' side is saying that they want mass deportations of EU citizens who are already legally here. It's possible however that the law will become somewhat stricter for them. That depends on whether (a) the UK does a deal with the EU at least to keep fully intact the rights of everyone who moved before Brexit and (b) what UK law would be if there's no such deal (or if the rights are only partly intact). In the absence of a deal it's possible that rules could become stricter - for instance no equal treatment in tuition fees or job applications, or expulsion from the country if you don't earn a certain amount (according to new UK immigration laws).

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  33. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  34. I'm worried.. My girlfriend is German and she has been living here for what will be two years this August. She is studying here but plans on staying beyond after her studies. Will she be forced to leave should the UK vote out?

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    Replies
    1. Thanks for your comment, Alex. See my reply to Anonymous, earlier today, which I think applies equally here. I would add the point that it would be necessary for any UK/EU deal on the rights of already resident people to guarantee their rights also to 'switch' status, ie from student to worker (and many other forms of switching exist too). At this point we can't know for sure whether it would do, of course.

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  35. Hi, do you think that the Registration Certificate for an EEA Qualified Person, that gives the right to remain in UK for 5 years, would help in case of Brexit?

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    1. Thanks for your question. See my replies to Manuel and Anonymous (one of them) on 23rd Feb. [Sorry but I can't quite keep up with all questions or always answer in order]

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  36. Hi Steve! I am Portuguese and have been living and working in the UK for 3 and half years. I need 5 years living in the UK before I can apply to a residence card and another year on top of it to apply for citizenship. Is it likely that EU citizens like myself that have been living in the UK for less than 5 year will need a visa to carry on working and living here? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Thanks for your question. See my replies to Manuel and Anonymous (one of them) on 23rd Feb. [Sorry but I can't quite keep up with all questions or always answer in order]

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  37. hi guys a lot of us are looking at the now we should think on the future and I want my child to have a job and not have to fight all of EU for a job the are a few fact that no one has mentioned that are plan to see
    1. people come to uk for better life and jobs most if not all never invest in the uk they take the money the have made and invest in their home countries this is the number 1 Reason the polish want us to stay, we leave the economy goes straight to the crapper
    2.The UK is now a bottomless pit of jobs money and land the more people come in the less their will be for the British children to have when they get older, at the rate we are going if we don't pull out the will be nothing left and when it is all gone they will leave and we will be left to try and fix it
    3. the leave and standard of education in EU for children under 18 is much higher in short British kids don't stand a change we will end up with what happened in Germany with locals not getting good jobs ending up in dead end low paying jobs this will lead to more heat and eventually Zenofobia all this can be avoided by simple closing our boarders and cutting all welfare to foreigners completely even the free medical and education let them pay something for it after all the are take jobs off us its only fair

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    1. You don't trouble yourself with evidence for any of this, or think about the fact that a Brexit (if it does in fact end the free movement of people) would also make it harder for those British people who want to study and work in the EU. Germany doesn't really look like an economic basket case to me.

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    2. Maybe you should brush up on your English before you post pal! No wonder you are anxious about competitiveness.

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    3. What about all the UK citizens that go to other countries to retire or work? Should they be treated the same way as you want Europeans (except Brits) to be treated?
      Some professions will die out. Just look at racing, very few Brits want to work in it. So the last couple of years there's no staff, and it's only getting worse.
      We pay tax, why should we not be allowed to use the NHS just as any British citizen tax payer.
      About foreigners spending money in their home countries... Again, we pay tax. And we work hard to earn it, why can't we use it the way we want to, as British people would? I suppose Brits never go on holiday and spend money then? Or eat pizza, go shopping at IKEA. Or buy imported fruits, vegetables, meat... Anything imported really.

      I don't even understand the 3rd point you're making. Could you write it with proper English sentence structure and punctuation, please?
      Also, the spelling is "xenophobia" not "zenofobia". Could point much more out, but can't be bothered...

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  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Thanks, Manuel. In principle the UK would still be a member of the EU for awhile, perhaps two years, after a Leave vote. So in principle EU free movement law would still apply during that time. There is some risk that it would not be fully applied in practice though, under the circumstances.

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    2. Thanks
      I had deleted the post to re-frame the question but you have clarified my concerns
      regards

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  39. I have been here for over 10 years.I am happy to live here and I don't mind to get a British passport . From what you are saying having this could protect me absolutely...Would you recommend me to have it done ASAP..or it's ok to do it later this year as I might go to India in September for one month. Thanks for your answers. With the financial matters I earn around 16.000..not sure as my income has increased this tax year.

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    1. It can't hurt to get UK citizenship but of course there is a cost and hassle involved - you would need to investigate further. Hopefully there will be a deal protecting everyone already resident in the UK/EU on Brexit Day but this is not certain yet.

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  40. And also what about the permanent resident. Would you recommend me to get one? Thanks!

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    Replies
    1. It can never hurt to get permanent resident status under EU and/or national law. It's unlikely to be taken away once obtained.

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  41. Steve, I was wondering if you could help me out.
    I have been in the UK since August 19, 2011 (the day I arrived to live) on an Italian Passport. August 19, 2015 will be my 5 years since arriving in the UK. Ive been working full-time since 3rd of September 2011, and have never received any benefits. I want to stay and live in the UK, Ive made a small life here for myself.
    I feel quite nervous about this referendum as it is set for June 23, and if the UK votes OUT, am I going to miss out on being eligible for a permanant residence card because the vote has taken place just before my 5 years living in the UK? I am really worried and unsettled about this. I know even if the UK does leave the EU, it won't automatically happen the next day, but maybe all the new rulings, ect will be set to take effect from the day of the vote. So say for example, If i want to apply for permanent residency, the Home Office could possibly say I am not eligible to apply for it because its only available for EU nationals who have been living in the UK for five years or longer from XXX date till the 23rd of June 2016, the day the UK people voted to get out of the EU.

    I hope this question is clear, if I haven't been clear please let me know. What I am hoping is, even with an exit vote, that it will take months to finally come to an agreement, and by then I will still be eligible to apply for the permeant residency as the UK will still be part of the EU but in the process of exiting. Basically, I would be making it in just barley.

    Could you please help me out and give me your option?

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    1. See my answer to Manuel earlier today. In principle the UK would be an EU member and covered by EU law for another two years after the referendum (or rather after the official notification of Brexit, which might be a few days afterward perhaps). That date can be altered but even if it is brought forward I can't imagine a deal on withdrawal and post-Brexit relations can be done anywhere near as soon as August. So if the UK still kept applying its legal obligations during this time anyone due to obtain permanent residence under EU law in the UK would get it. One would certainly hope the UK would comply with its obligations. After Brexit I would imagine a UK/EU deal preserving the position of everyone legally resident on Brexit day would likely be agreed, but that's not absolutely certain.

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  42. I have had Given leave to enter the UK for an indefinite period since 1967... have lived in the UK for nigh on 70 years and in between another country... for periods of up to 6-7 months at a time. How will this effect me if the UK leave Europe?

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    1. It really would be extraordinary if the UK sought to remove anyone who has been here for decades. I can't see that happening. There are occasional cases where they do this but they are usually people who weren't here legally. As long as the Human Rights Act is in force, or if it is only amended a little in the near future, there should be no issue. For anyone who is definitely documented as here legally for that length of time, there should not be a problem.

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  43. My partner is Danish and has lived in the U.K. For around 10 years. He is not interested in British citizenship, particularly as he would have to give up his Danish passport. I wonder how the exit would affect him?

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    1. As discussed in the post, hopefully anyone with permanent residence under EU law would simply be classified as having indefinite leave to remain in the UK (if they do not already also have that status). There would hopefully be an EU/UK deal confirming that status is retained.

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    2. Denmark is officially allowing dual citizenship as of 01 Sept 2015. Advice your partner accordingly. Cheers

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  44. I am german and currently studying in England part time towards a bachelor degree which I will finish next year. I was planning on doing a Masters course afterwards which would start in October 2017. This course would run until June 2018. I read somewhere that it would take the UK a minimum of 2 years to actually leave the EU. I can't afford international fees but I was thinking if it actually takes at least 2 years wouldn't that mean I would still be able to pay the home fees? Thank you!

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    1. I think this is the most obvious sort of transitional issue. If Brexit happens in the midst of an academic year, at the very least those taking a course ought not to have their fees increased during that academic year. Hopefully that would be a very easy point to agree, unilaterally if not bilaterally between the UK and EU. The difficulty might come as regards subsequent years on the same course, although when tuition fees were last raised in England that did not affect those who had already started a degree before that date. They still paid the lower tuition fee for all subsequent years.

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  45. So does that mean the home fees would still apply to EU citizens during those 2 years?

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    1. *If* the UK follows the precedent of what happened when tuition fees were increased for England last time, then those who started on a multi-year course before Brexit day would still be able to rely upon the lower tuition fees (and, where relevant, student loans) until the end of the course. I would think that's likely to apply again if there's a Brexit, even if there's no UK/EU deal on this, but there's no guarantee.

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  46. Hi Steve. I am lithuanian, my husband is Polish. Our daughter is British citizen. If Brexit happen how this may effect our family?

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    1. Thanks for your question. See my replies to Dalia and Amanda on 5 March 2016. I can't give advice to individuals but the best way forward for any EU citizens in the UK is to obtain indefinite leave to remain in UK law and permanent residence under EU law if they are eligible for either. Hopefully the UK would not cancel the former, and the UK and EU will agree to retain the latter for those who already have it, but there's no guarantee.

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    2. Same situation for me difference is I'm Lithuanian and my partner is British.but even illegal immigrants can't be forced out if child is settled in the UK (I know sounds strange)heard about discreet right to stay or something like that.

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  47. I am living in UK since August 2007 under UK immigration law till 2015 and after that I have been on non-EU Family member 5 years residence card. In July 2017 I will be eligible for indefinite under 10 years long term resident. Now my question is that how would it affect me if brexit happens and there is 2 years notification time before exiting which would be around july 2018.

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    1. You should retain and keep accruing all rights under EU law right up until Brexit date. After that hopefully there should be a deal at least to freeze the rights which everyone has accrued until that date.

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    2. when you say that 'that date' in the end of you comment, do you mean july 2018 and would I be able to apply for indefinite in july 2017?

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    3. I mean the Brexit date. The actual Brexit date is not definite in the event of a 'Leave' vote because the two-year negotiating period is only a default; it can be shortened or lengthened if the UK and all EU Member States agreed. I can't advise on individual cases but you would still be covered by EU law in July 2017 if Brexit hasn't happened yet. I don't know what the position is under national UK law or whether that might change.

      Delete
  48. Hi Steve,
    I am Italian and have lived in uk since 1976 and do believe I was given indefinite leave permit but not sure as I was quite young back then. I married an English man and we have 3 children who are adult now. 2 of my children currently serving in the British army for the last 7 years. I am a nurse manager and have been working ever since I came in England as a 16 year old. My question is will I need to apply for a visa permit to work and stay if uk leaves the EU

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can't advise on individual cases. But anyone who is uncertain about whether they have indefinite leave to remain should consider consulting a lawyer on this point. It would be highly unlikely that the UK would take that status away from anyone who has it before Brexit day.

      Also, any EU citizen in the UK for decades (in fact, for more than five years) will also qualify for permanent residence status under EU law. There may well be a deal between the EU and UK that would preserve any immigration status that has already been acquired on either side. None of this is guaranteed - these are just reasonable assumptions.

      Delete
    2. I say vote Out most things will not change ,its not working like this ,The UK is a dumping ground for all the poor ,At least when the British go abroad its usually with money ,and there money is spent there ..There a difference. I own my house right out. But I'm finding myself having to live with the filthy Romanian gypsies I'm sick of it,they are here in the take WE DONT MIGRATE TO ONE PART OF THE WE GO EVERY WHERE .. Britains spread abroad is about two million but are spread all over Europe. over,5 million poor E U citizens have come here one small island ,plus we are getting half of the rest of the world here too ,Only one way to go GET OUT ON JUNE THE 23rd I. Doing my hardest to get out campaigning daily strong and hard to leave this diabolical dictatorship. They don't want us in that bad. Other wise they would of given us what we want. They didn't and they don't want to lose 55 million a day of our money ,All the child benefit is going abroad spent abroad its our money one po!ish girl said she gets £200 month for one child. How come ..You either live here or you don't

      Delete
    3. The '5 million' statistic is bogus, there are 2.3 million in the UK according to the Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2172345/2-33m-EU-migrants-living-Britain-Only-Spain-Germany-popular-UK.html
      That's similar to the UK numbers in the EU. Why is it relevant that the UK numbers are more spread out? Most migration from the rest of the world is entirely controlled by the UK, nothing to do with the EU. By your logic since the EU will not give the UK what it wants as a member why would it give it a good deal as a non-member? The '£55 million a day' porkie has long since been debunked as false: https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

      Delete
    4. The £55 million is indeed a red herring/smoked mackeral for the Kippah's (UKIP devotees) enthralled by the cult of Farage.

      Many UKIP devotees also believe that £12 billion in foreign aid should be scrapped to help the UK poor and flood victims.

      However UKIP and Conservatives fail to mention that the UK has refused EU aid to help flooded areas and that foreign aid is actually a rebate as every £1 spent results in £2 returned in debt repayments.

      The most serious claim of £55 million daily cost of EU membership that would after Brexit result in savings and investment is a lie because the Conservatives/UKIP will spend this money on tax cuts for the rich and bank bail outs. Bank bailouts and liabilities will amount to over £1.5 trillion. If the Conservatives were serious about their fiscal policies they would not be selling any state assets (certainly not at a loss), not privatising publuc services for private profit and would not ignore billions of pounds in tax avoidance/evasion by billionaires/trillionaires and multinational corporations. The majority of Conservatives/UKIP and Blairite/Lib Dem MP's are without morals, empathy and compassion and would like Britain return to Victorian values as can be seen by their continued and expanded vicious and frenzied assaults from their time in government and their voting records on the welfare state, NHS, human rights and democracy, examples include axing benefits and support for the weakest and most vulnerable in society by closure of Independent Living Fund, restricting and reducing benefits and cutting benefits for disabled people unable to work by over £30 per week from £102 to £73 per week.

      In other words all those in power supporting Brexit are doing it for personal gain and self interest and not to benefit the people of the UK or the EU or the long term future of the UK or EU.

      One possible long term case scenario could mean Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales stay in the EU while England becomes the 51st state in the US.

      Delete
  49. Hi Steve,

    I am a UK national and my wife is an EU national. We are both working in the UK, we have been married for 3 years, is my wife eligible for permanent residency? additionally what are the conditions for this is the test of living in england be a requirement or ESOL courses? Additionally you say that people automatically receive this status under EU law do you mind elaborating a bit on this please?

    Many Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your question, sorry for delayed reply. I can't advise on individual cases. There is a concept of indefinite leave to remain under UK law and EU citizens in the UK may wish look into the criteria for obtaining that. The EU concept of permanent residence applies after five years' legal residence in accordance with the EU citizens' Directive; this would include residence as a worker. See further my reply to Daria (comment from 5 March 2016) on the possibility of reaching the 5-year period during the period of UK withdrawal, and whether the EU status might be lost after Brexit.

      Delete
  50. Hi Steve.
    I am Latvian living in England Since 2008 and I have 4 year old daughter who is British. So where do i stand if Britain goes out of EU?
    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your question, sorry for delayed reply. See also my reply to Daria dated 5th March. I can't advise on individual cases, but any EU citizen living legally in the UK for more than five years in accordance with the EU citizens' Directive would be eligible for permanent residence status under EU law. They may also be eligible for indefinite leave to remain under UK law. It's probably best that they make sure that they obtain either or both forms of status.

      Delete
  51. Hi there,
    I have been living in England since 1999. I am a Polish citizen who was granted ILR back in 2003 on the marriage grounds basis.
    I divorced my husband in 2005 and then remarried. I have never applied for a permanent residence card or British passport respectively. I didn't think that my status in the UK could be fragile...
    So... Here I am- panicking:-) . I don't suppose I am the only one...
    My daughter is a British citizen due to the fact that I was clear of immigration ( my ILR was the reason I believe)
    I was advised by an immigration solicitor to apply for PR first as I won't be physically able to prove my residence since April 2003( the year I was granted ILR ) as I do not have any of my pay slips:-(((( So the Home Office would reject my application. Since Poland joined the EU - my passport wasn't stamped at any time leaving/entering the country.
    My case is rather complicated when it comes to applying for PR too... I have been employed since Oct 2011 - which is not a 5 yr period either. I was at home with my daughter and started working at her school when she was 5 ...
    Could you please advise mw What Could I possibly do to stop worrying about Brexit? :-(((( Shall i apply for PR in Oct ? That is only if UK stays in the EU...
    Can Any Organisation such for instance Home Office question my ILR? I have Not left the country for longer than 4 weeks during a single year since I have arrived 17 yrs ago... Although my passport wasn't stamped - There Must Be some evidence stored on the computer data- borders control...
    I am puzzled and frankly speaking fed up with it all.
    I would appreciate if you could get back to me.
    Thank you in advance

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can't advise on individual cases. But there is a two-year period for the UK to withdraw from the EU if there is a 'Leave' vote. During that time the UK is an EU member. That is a default period, and the time frame could be longer or shorter if everyone agrees. But it's very unlikely that the UK would leave the EU this autumn already, so it should be possible to obtain permanent residence under EU law then. The question would be what happens to that status once the UK leaves; hopefully there will be a deal preserving everyone's status, but that's not guaranteed. It seems very unlikely that the UK will start removing ILR from those who already have it, though.

      Delete
    2. Steve,
      Would you keep the ILR as it is ( considering I obtained it in 2003 before Poland joined EU) - i was was granted under the UK law. They surely cannot remove something that was obtained back then? Also is there a teeny tiny chance that my husband could obtain ILR as a spouse of sb who already has it? Does it make sense at all? I just fear the worst...

      Delete
    3. Daria, I find it hard to believe that the UK would remove ILR from anyone who has it already. I don't know the details of claiming ILR but I think it would be wise for anyone who could qualify to try to obtain it.

      Delete
    4. Thanks again Steve:-)
      I will soon become a regular here:-)))
      Daria

      Delete
  52. Thank you very much for your time to teply to my message:-) I also believe that some massive exodus or physical removal of all those who have been contributing to the system for many years - is rather unlikely. It is after all- against human rights I believe...
    Thank you Steve;-) I appreciate;-)

    ReplyDelete
  53. I am English and used to be self employed, when the EU Migrants started to arrive there pushed down my prices. Ence no work. I really had a big problem with the Migrants for years after, but if the UK do pull out of the EU I think the Migrants what live hear now should be free to stay if your working. We don't want free loaders in this country we have enough of our own. I think also any EU migrant that commits a serious offence should be deported back to the country of origin.I hope UK don't come out of EU but I think its inevitable, If we stay in though I think we should curb the number we let through our borders after all we are a Island

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There's no possibility for citizens of other EU countries to come to the UK and get benefits from day one. Also the law does allow expulsion of EU citizens who have committed serious offences.

      Delete
    2. I agree with you...I am not a free loader and despise of those who take advantage of tge system as a whole. I hope that the exit will clarify that also. I am angered and clearly frustrated as I fear for my future... I have been working and paying into the system for most of the years ( I took maternity leave to spend time with my child) . Other than that- I obeyed the law :-))) It is sad that now I am almost forced to apply for British passport... Well- if it is the only way:-) I'll do it;-) England is my Home ;-))) and I love it dearly;-)))
      Regards

      Delete
  54. Hi Steve,
    Thank you for the information on this blog, I have read all through and looked through all comments. I come across this page after searching for some information which affects me. I feel bad to ask you for advice since I noticed you are flooded with questions here but I'm kinda desperate, i'm thinking about to find a lawyer though I don't know where to start.

    I'm British and born British, to British parents and I live here. My girlfriend is Portuguese, and she still lives in Portugal, I visit her every few months since I work here. I earn around £17,000 per year before deductions. She has never been to UK before. We plan to live here together and marry soon here, she is just recovering from a broken leg first. She would like to work here too. Since the possible Brexit, I am worried about the outcomes and if we can't be together as a family. I can't really move to Portugal since I have a cardiac condition. Is it possible you could advise me on steps I should take now to minimize the worst, or any advice at all? I'm very worried. Thank you so much and sorry for a long question.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If there is a Leave vote in principle the UK would remain an EU member for two years, although that date is not certain, since it could be made shorter or longer with unanimous consent. Any EU citizen should be able to move to the UK or vice versa during that time. There's a good chance that an EU/UK deal, or national law failing that, would protect the position of everyone who had moved before the actual date of Brexit, but that's not certain.

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  55. Thank you very much for the reply. Do you think marrying before that 2 year post brexit period will make much of a difference? Of course we would have preferred to plan a wedding like the normal person and marry in our own time without pressure, but if us being together is threatened by brexit we have discussed marrying earlier than planned. Im very afraid at the thought of us not being able to be together.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can't advise on individual cases. In theory the UK will remain a full EU Member State until Brexit Day and so what should matter is whether people move between EU/UK before that date in accordance with EU law (assuming that there are transitional arrangements). That could be as the spouse of a UK/EU citizen or as a worker or self-employed person.

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  56. hi i am swiss national. i am moving to uk in april 2016
    i like to work and live in uk. if uk leave EU what should i do?
    if i get forced out from uk?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The EU/UK/Swiss relationship has some distinct features. The treaty on free movement of persons is between the EU, its Member States, and Switzerland. The UK position is that due to its opt out on free movement of people, the treaty only binds the UK separately from the EU. However the treaty only applies to 'EU Member States' and Switzerland, so logically it should terminate for the UK on Brexit day.
      However, the UK and Switzerland could decide to keep it going. If the UK joins EFTA, it would have to apply the free movement of persons with EFTA members. I don't know whether that is likely to happen, though.
      However, unlike the EU Treaties, the EC/Swiss treaty has an express clause saying that existing rights are unaffected if the treaty ends. Article 23 reads: 'In the event of termination or non-renewal, rights acquired by private individuals shall not be affected. The Contracting Parties shall settle by mutual agreement what action is to be taken in respect of rights in the process of being acquired.' That would suggest that a Swiss citizen working in the UK would keep that status after Brexit day, if this clause is meant to apply to immigration status.

      Delete
  57. My partner is British and my baby gonna be British,I hope even in a worst scenario I won't need visa.thanks for this website because nobody else goes to the details what may happen to immigrants if brexit!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Hi Steve,
    I have one more question ( if not a thousand):-)))
    Do you know or heard from reliable sources- what are the odds of Britain leaving EU now? I haven't met a single English person wishing to stay...

    regards
    Daria

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know lots of people wishing to stay. At the moment, the betting shops are still heavily predicting a 'Remain' victory. The latest poll is tied (today's Telegraph) but it did not use the actual referendum question.

      Delete
    2. Hi Steve:-)
      I'm overwhelmed by the news today...
      It's all we somehow had expected but shocking on every level...
      How terrorist attacks impact the general public mood? Brexit and Bremain I mean...?
      I personally thought to myself- referendum aside-
      It's best to stay isn't it? What are your thoughts?
      regards
      Daria

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    3. It is terrible news. We don't know all the facts yet but in general I would point out that there are terrorist attacks in many countries outside the EU too. There is no reason to think that leaving the EU protects against them, especially given that they are usually committed by citizens of the UK anyway.

      Delete
    4. Precisely... It's just a bad time for Europe. Full stop. :-(((((
      Utterly disturbing...
      Best regards
      Daria

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  59. I just hope they will....Such a shame We cannot vote...
    thank you:-)

    ReplyDelete
  60. Dear steve.
    Transition period will start from UK GOV,s notification till exit agreement or if no agreement for two years? will free movement still remain in place during transition period?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The two year period to departure from the EU starts from the notification of the UK government. It can be shortened or lengthened by unanimous agreement. In principle free movement and other EU laws should still apply unchanged until Brexit Day.

      Delete
  61. Dear Steve,
    A very interesting article - and on a touchy point

    Personally I don’t think anyone living here legally will be thrown out if a Brexit will take place, but one can never tell and I might be taking out of my wishful thinking...

    I do have a quite unique situation which I find hard to understand the interpretation of the EU immigration directive in regards – I wonder if, given your deep understanding of the EU law, you could shade some light on that (I did query an immigration advisor about that – but he seemed a little puzzled …):

    I am a dual citizen – EU2 and none EU working for an international company. The company relocated me to the UK in 2012 using Tier 2 ICT Visa in my none EU passport.

    On the beginning of 2014 (when the restrictions on EU2 nationals were lift) I scheduled an appointment with the home office which had confirmed that I do not need any permission to work and issued a residence card (EEA1) for me.

    Given the coming referendum I do wonder when the earliest date from which I could count toward my permanent residency:
    - Starting from January 2014 is the obvious answer.
    - However, as I was an EEA citizen legally living and working here in the UK since 2012 can I count since then? (In practical terms I do see that section 9.17 in the EEA(PR) from can be used be EU2 nationals to list ‘other permission types’)

    I think the question is down to – was I considered as executing my treaty rights prior to January 2014? If I was granted EEA citizenship on that date (or any other date after arriving to the UK) I guess not but given the fact that I am an EEA citizen since birth and was such a citizen prior to moving here it might be different.

    Are there any clear rules about such (or similar) cases?

    P.S
    Sorry it turned out such a long comment …

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the question, it's an interesting one that probably affects a number of other people. The closest the CJEU has come to answering this issue is in a case called Ziolkowski. In that case a Polish citizen had been resident in Germany (a) under national law, ie not as a worker or a person otherwise meeting the EU law conditions to be there and (b) partly before Polish accession to the EU. The CJEU said that only residence on the basis of the EU citizens' Directive counted toward permanent residence under EU law. National law wasn't good enough. But time spent before accession counted as long as it met the underlying conditions in the Directive (even though it wasn't applicable before the 2004 enlargement). The first point seems to count against you, the second point in your favour since you were present under national law but also a worker. I think we would need another CJEU ruling to be certain!

      Delete
  62. Hi Steve,

    Thank you for the answer – I guess for now I have to wait and see how things turn out (as I wrote – I think it is reasonable to expect that there will be transitional arrangement rather than a mass deportation; and even better to home that the vote would end ‘in’).

    By the way – assume the following (just speculating for the fun now but it is interesting): there is a Brexit and the transitional agreement converts the PR into ILR (national low), meaning that EU national completing 5 years of residency after Brexit could apply to ILR. In that case it merges the EEA route with the national one – making the case of joining the periods for me (and probably others) a stronger one.

    Thanks again

    ReplyDelete
  63. Steve:-)
    You mentioned in one of your posts ( comments) that if there would be No Deal after Brexit- the Uk law could become much stricter for the EU nationals- certain earnings or expulsion ... I am aware of £36000 ( correct me if I'm wrong) for those wishing to stay - Tier 2 visa?
    If they imposed that law on us- would it apply to both working/ married couples? I
    I mean 36k for a husband and 36 k for a wife? How does it work now?
    Thank you ( again ;-))))))

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't know how the UK law works exactly. It might of course be reviewed if there were no free movement deal after Brexit.

      Delete
  64. Hi Steve. My application for naturalization as a UK citizen has been declined because I did not satisfied 5 + 1 year requirement. Home Office however prompted me to reapply in June this year. I've registered under the Worker Scheme in January 2006 and been exercising treaty rights ever since, Home Office had all my relevant documents.
    1/ Why they ignored my first registration in January 2006?
    2/ If I reapply, would they reject my application again just to rake the fee money in?
    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your question Jerry. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the UK citizenship process to suggest an answer. Perhaps there are other readers who could reply?

      Delete
    2. You have to have permanent residency card for a year (and have been living for 5years to get it) and then apply for citizenship and pass all the procedures. That what I learnt,don't want to mislead.

      Delete
  65. Thank you for the helpful and thorough article. Could you please share some thought on when would the changes in tuition fees take place, if the UK is voted out of the EU? I am a Latvian national considering to pursue a Master's degree in 2016, however, if the fees go to the same level as for the Overseas students, it would be almost impossible for me to finance my studies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nothing should change before Brexit day, which would be two years after notifying the UK's intention to withdraw, unless the UK and remaining EU agree to a longer or shorter date.

      Delete
    2. Thank you, Steve! And how about after Brexit? Could universities then announce higher fees for students willing to study this year? I hope it does not happen, especially considering the length of time it took to change from £3,5 to £9k undergraduate tuition fees.

      Delete
    3. That would be up to government policy. I assume that there would no longer be equal treatment in tuition fees or student loans after that point unless the UK still signed up to some form of deal on free movement of persons with the EU. But I would expect that anyone who starts their course before Brexit day would still have equal treatment until they finish that course. That sort of transitional issue might be dealt with in the withdrawal agreement.

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    4. Thank you for letting me know, that is really helpful!

      Delete
  66. Dear Steve,

    Thank you for the great article!

    I am just writing to inquire about your opinion on the higher education fee changes after the EU Referendum.

    I am currently considering pursuing my Master's degree in 2016 and
    being an EU national I am entitled to the same tuition fees as
    the UK students. However, if the UK leaves EU, does that mean that the tuition fees would go up this year?

    Any kind of advice or opinion would be greatly appreciated in making
    my future choice.

    Thank you,
    E

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your question. See my replies from 5 April 2016.

      Delete
  67. Dear Steve,
    I have 2 questions please:
    1. In case of a Brexit, can the UK start the negotiations before asking Article 50? Let say, 1 year of negotiations and then 2 years of negotiations under Article 50 (3 years until exit day)?
    2. If the UK will be part of EEA, will it be the same immigration laws as it is today (with no discrimination, permanent residency after 5 years etc.)?

    Thanks and kind regards,
    Sam

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. In principle not formally, but it would be possible to have informal talks if both sides were willing. It's hard to know whether they would be.
      2. Yes, the same law on immigration (free movement) of EU citizens would apply. In principle it would not change but the UK might also decide to ask to sign up to the EEA with derogations on issues like these. The EU would have to agree to that with a unanimous vote. (See Article 128 EEA on the process of joining the EEA).

      Delete
    2. Many thanks
      Sam

      Delete
  68. Dear steve,

    any residence document given EU citizens or third country nationals relative of EU citizen during transitional period will remain in place?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Until the Brexit date. Then it's not necessarily clear what will happen. One would hope for full protection of those who are legally present but there may be a distinction - no expulsions but stricter rules on earnings and family reunion, for instance.

      Delete
  69. Dear Professor Peers,
    Is the position since Metock in relation to citizenship that one must have been a legal resident in another m/s first before entering a different EU m/s ? As I understand it, Ireland applied it's own immigration laws in this case which kind of undermines the whole idea of citizenship.
    Thanks,
    Michael.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The whole point of Metock was that once a non-EU citizen marries an EU citizen who has moved to another Member State then the immigration status of the non-EU citizen is irrelevant, as there is no possible test of prior lawful residence in another Member State.

      Delete
  70. I wish we could send the nationalists from all the European countries (not just the British ones) somewhere where they could all live together as one happy isolated family. We could even build a wall for them. Then the rest of us can live in a free, open and tolerant Europe and get on with solving the problems we have such as terrorism and unemployment instead of arguing about nationalities.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We can do that - Trum promised to build a wall in US we can ask him to build another near mexico for the nationalists and send them there.

      Delete
  71. According to the FT today three quarters of the citizens of other EU countries resident in the UK would not have been allowed to settle here under the rules applied to the citizens of non-EU countries. But that only means that they should not have been permitted to settle here in the first place, it doesn't mean that any of them would be required to leave after we have left the EU. Quite apart from other considerations - international law, the possibility of retaliation and the fact that many are settled in jobs which need to be done - it would be unreasonable and unjust to invite people to settle here, permanently if they wish, and start families here if they wish, then turn round and say they must leave. However after we have left the rules for the immigration of the citizens of EU (or EEA) countries should not necessarily be more favourable than those for the citizens of non-EU (or non-EEA) countries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What's the possibility of visa system to be introduced?is it more likely Britain will keep movement?

      Delete
    2. Very hard to guess what would happen - a few people on the Leave camp seem to be talking about visas for short-term visits; some of the activists support continued free movement under the EEA but the Leave leadership (and I would expect most Leave voters) reject it.

      Delete
  72. Dear Steve.

    after leave vote when transitional period will start?from leave notification to two year period or exit agreement is a transitional period?

    ReplyDelete
  73. Thanks for your question. EU law would in principle fully apply until Brexit Day, which will be two years after the withdrawal notification unless otherwise agreed. The exact details of what happens after that remain to be seen.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Is any news what would happen with current Europeans living in the UK if brexit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's the subject of this post. Are you asking if there are any updates? I suppose we will have wait to see if there's a Leave vote or not.

      Delete
  75. im british citizen working in republic of ireland if uk leaves eu do i need visa in republic of ireland here

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The UK and Ireland are likely to maintain the prior arrangement of allowing each other's citizens to live and work freely in each country, although that would no longer be underpinned by EU law.

      Delete
  76. People, open your eyes widely, please. All these reasons are just propaganda, for political purposes. I remember just a couple of months before voting in 2014 some of the voices invented the story that opening the borders for Bulgaria and Romania will allow dozens of gypsies to come in UK and raise the rate of criminality especially through begging or theft. All the newspapers promoting the idea knew it was not true but it sounded beautiful as a headline. Now they say migrants take the jobs of English. Another lie. Look how many jobs can be find through agencies; they never stopped employing. I don't think English are not allowed to apply to work with these agency for some jobs, that are mainly in factories or warehouses. Cause these are the jobs that EU citizens take in the first place... Open please your eyes...

    ReplyDelete
  77. As usual those people defending the EU workers are those who make money from them or whose jobs have not been effected by them.The workers of our own country should come FIRST.. All EU workers should be sent back home...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm volunteering you (and anyone who thinks like you) to get medical treatment (when you need it) from those NHS doctors whom you've deported.

      Delete
  78. Good luck to the IN campaign and lets hope the UK remains in the EU for all the right reasons. UK will be a dead investment if they leave. Anyways, should they leave im sure the world is huge and there are many countries in the EU that you could make home - In todays age when the world is uniting to become one, nationalism is dividing people on grounds of nationality, faith, rich and poor - its all not so cool. Good Luck

    ReplyDelete
  79. Replies
    1. English wife of Irish husband. As a person in my 70s, I was horrified to read the lies and innuendo peddled by the leave camp, targeted, obviously at a frightened and mostly ill read electorate. This refusal to listen to "the experts" seems to echo the Trump campaign and shame on you well educated and privileged buffoons to take advantage of the misplaced fear of disadvantaged groups who have not been the recipients of EU membership. It should be noticed that EU countries make their own laws and have the option of adhering to EU laws, ala France Italy to name a few. Who will you now blame Britain for your own more unpalatable laws and budgets?

      Delete
  80. Obvious mess everywhere...but I'm not concerned about political issues,I'm interested in ordinary people/couples lives!does it really (existing rights) for immigrants depends on further negotiations between uk and EU?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It shouldn't because the Leave side promised not to threaten EU migrants here and the UK and EU should be able to agree on this easily. But some unprincipled UK politicians seem determined to raise the issue nonetheless.

      Delete
  81. Thanks for your reassurance,I hope both sides will take a logical step towards both sides,EU and UK immigrants already settled in other countries and do believe Theresa May gonna stop playing with uncertainty card on this matter.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Good luck to the IN campaign and lets hope the UK remains in the EU for all the right reasons. UK will be a dead investment if they leave. Anyways, should they leave im sure the world is huge and there are many countries in the EU that you could make home..

    Live in care

    ReplyDelete
  83. It is something that never had to happen in my opinion, now we will have more problems with the students coming in from UK but know with all these changes looks very very bad

    ReplyDelete